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Legality of non-ADR approved led headlight conversion?

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  • Legality of non-ADR approved led headlight conversion?

    Hi guys, looking to change out my disgusting halogen headlights that came factory, to the ones on blingworks auto for 160 AUD from Konik automotive lighting. The headlight unit says that it isn’t approved, but on my model of car, the manufacturer sells led headlights from a higher/upgraded model.

    According to the ADR rules, I am legally required to put the factory, or ADR approved headlights, but in my opinion, as long as they do not blind other drivers no the road, then it would go unnoticed.

    my question is, has anyone done these type of mods? And will it possibly void the warranty of the car? Thanks guys

  • #2
    More than the warranty, i would be worried about if those mods void the insurance policy terms...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Kullman View Post
      More than the warranty, i would be worried about if those mods void the insurance policy terms...
      hmm... thats a good point. But i doubt the insurance company will care for an increased visibility during the night?

      Comment


      • #4
        Who knows what are they capable of to avoid to pay for an accident.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kullman View Post
          Who knows what are they capable of to avoid to pay for an accident.
          This is true. Unless i call them and interrogate them about led lights, i will never know

          Comment


          • #6
            LED headlights are the devil.
            Trying to get an LED to run on a varying voltage of 11.8~14v is already quite the task for whatever controller box you add on; but then you have modern cars with "blown bulb" sensors which can't see the load, and then you have the eye problems.

            Most of them are very "White" which, while looking nice, damages your night vision.
            There's a lot to learn about rods\cones in the eye; but basically, anything toward the red spectrum doesn't affect your light sensitivity, anything toward the blue spectrum causes your iris to close, like bright sunlight, which is very blue; meaning while you FEEL like you can see more at night (because your brain THINKS it's brighter) in reality your iris is slightly closed, and your distance acuity is quite noticeably reduced.

            There is a VERY good chance that these unapproved LED's won't have any sort of wavelength filtering calculated on them, and will output a decent dose of light tending toward the blue end of the spectrum.
            There's a lot of trickery happening in modern HID\LED bulbs; and you can sort of see it when you look at them; they sparkle "rainbow" inside the housing, because there's coatings designed to reflect only the most specific wavelengths.

            This same "lack of engineering" is why aftermarket HID kits are illegal.
            Worse than excessive brightness blinding people, is the 'recovery' time from driving past an HID kit.
            This can be as long as 1 minute, till your iris fully reopens after being exposed to that much blue wavelength.
            Drivers slightly blind for an entire minute isn't great.....

            Obviously; do as you wish I'm not the boss of anybody, but I personally recommend against it. (it's likely the reflector in your headlight isn't coated; though it MIGHT be, if it was a factory option like you said.....)

            If you're at all inclined to take advice on this; can I suggest you look into Osram NightBreakers?
            https://www.powerbulbs.com/au/store/...ext-generation

            They have a blue coating on the bulb, so the headlight looks all 'super modern' and blue when you look at it, however the actual filament area is left uncoated, ensuring that the yellow\red wavelength isn't blocked by the blue coating.

            They're NOTICEABLY brighter than any other bulb I've tried (except a few $130+ philips options; but ain't nobody wanting to pay that!)
            Last edited by Master_Scythe; 25-05-2020, 01:36 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Also, the ilumination pattern from the LED bulbs on reflector headlights is usually uneven, something than doesn't occur with the projectors.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kullman View Post
                Also, the ilumination pattern from the LED bulbs on reflector headlights is usually uneven, something than doesn't occur with the projectors.
                I have tested this with a reflector housing on a Jeep Grand Cherokee

                What I found, was if you can get an LED which outputs a fairly yellow light you'll see much better and drivers coming towards you won't be blinded.

                The issue with the pattern, if you have a good LED the pattern will be fine where you need it most BUT when I switched to full beam there was a concentration zone in the middle of the pattern.

                So there's less light falling at the edges of the road. This is called the surround ratio and it's important these are lit to identify hazards like animals and pedestrians at the side of the road. LED's can't produce this because LED's emit a very narrow band of light from the chip.

                This is mainly the reason why LED retrofits can NEVER replace a filament or an HID bulb. There's always going to be bright and dark patches on your pattern

                As Master_Scythe correctly points out, your brain tricks you into thinking you can see better with the whiter/bluer light output when you'are actually seeing less overall taking peripheral vision into account. The only thing he isn't quite on, is the recovery time of the eye. This can take way more than 1 minute! This is also the reason you should NEVER flash your lights at someone during the night, as you can blind the driver and cause them to take action they wouldn't normally have to - worst case they brake hard and veer onto your side of the road.


                tldr; Best colours for seeing are Yellow,Yellow/White and Greenish. Anything over 5000k in colour temp you do not want. Something around the 3-4k is ideal I'd say.

                A safe option for you, would be to try and find a pair of second hand OEM led headlights, as you know these are "safe" and approved for use on public roads.
                I stripped my car out so much it now has 49/49 weight distribution.

                Project Diesel Tune:

                https://forums.mightycarmods.com/for...ct-diesel-tune

                My new Daily HA36S Alto Works

                Martin's Kei to success

                https://forums.mightycarmods.com/for...uki-alto-works

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Master_Scythe View Post
                  LED headlights are the devil.
                  Trying to get an LED to run on a varying voltage of 11.8~14v is already quite the task for whatever controller box you add on; but then you have modern cars with "blown bulb" sensors which can't see the load, and then you have the eye problems.

                  Most of them are very "White" which, while looking nice, damages your night vision.
                  There's a lot to learn about rods\cones in the eye; but basically, anything toward the red spectrum doesn't affect your light sensitivity, anything toward the blue spectrum causes your iris to close, like bright sunlight, which is very blue; meaning while you FEEL like you can see more at night (because your brain THINKS it's brighter) in reality your iris is slightly closed, and your distance acuity is quite noticeably reduced.

                  There is a VERY good chance that these unapproved LED's won't have any sort of wavelength filtering calculated on them, and will output a decent dose of light tending toward the blue end of the spectrum.
                  There's a lot of trickery happening in modern HID\LED bulbs; and you can sort of see it when you look at them; they sparkle "rainbow" inside the housing, because there's coatings designed to reflect only the most specific wavelengths.

                  This same "lack of engineering" is why aftermarket HID kits are illegal.
                  Worse than excessive brightness blinding people, is the 'recovery' time from driving past an HID kit.
                  This can be as long as 1 minute, till your iris fully reopens after being exposed to that much blue wavelength.
                  Drivers slightly blind for an entire minute isn't great.....

                  Obviously; do as you wish I'm not the boss of anybody, but I personally recommend against it. (it's likely the reflector in your headlight isn't coated; though it MIGHT be, if it was a factory option like you said.....)

                  If you're at all inclined to take advice on this; can I suggest you look into Osram NightBreakers?
                  https://www.powerbulbs.com/au/store/...ext-generation

                  They have a blue coating on the bulb, so the headlight looks all 'super modern' and blue when you look at it, however the actual filament area is left uncoated, ensuring that the yellow\red wavelength isn't blocked by the blue coating.

                  They're NOTICEABLY brighter than any other bulb I've tried (except a few $130+ philips options; but ain't nobody wanting to pay that!)
                  Thanks man, very informative and gave me a really clear understanding. Although i am not sure about the insurance world, as if i run these led headlights which are drl non approved, that means when an accident happens and theres an investigation that these lights were used, technically the vehicle is defective and shouldnt be on the road, meaning that m claim will be rejected. Ive had a look at the website you provided me, and so far, the bulbs look good. Do you know how i can check my bulb fitment? I got a golf 7.5 tsi my2020 and ive heard that it was a H7, but not too sure.

                  again, thank you

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MHR1294 View Post

                    I have tested this with a reflector housing on a Jeep Grand Cherokee

                    What I found, was if you can get an LED which outputs a fairly yellow light you'll see much better and drivers coming towards you won't be blinded.

                    The issue with the pattern, if you have a good LED the pattern will be fine where you need it most BUT when I switched to full beam there was a concentration zone in the middle of the pattern.

                    So there's less light falling at the edges of the road. This is called the surround ratio and it's important these are lit to identify hazards like animals and pedestrians at the side of the road. LED's can't produce this because LED's emit a very narrow band of light from the chip.

                    This is mainly the reason why LED retrofits can NEVER replace a filament or an HID bulb. There's always going to be bright and dark patches on your pattern

                    As Master_Scythe correctly points out, your brain tricks you into thinking you can see better with the whiter/bluer light output when you'are actually seeing less overall taking peripheral vision into account. The only thing he isn't quite on, is the recovery time of the eye. This can take way more than 1 minute! This is also the reason you should NEVER flash your lights at someone during the night, as you can blind the driver and cause them to take action they wouldn't normally have to - worst case they brake hard and veer onto your side of the road.


                    tldr; Best colours for seeing are Yellow,Yellow/White and Greenish. Anything over 5000k in colour temp you do not want. Something around the 3-4k is ideal I'd say.

                    A safe option for you, would be to try and find a pair of second hand OEM led headlights, as you know these are "safe" and approved for use on public roads.
                    Yes i heard that anything above 5000K is ‘wank factor’ on reddit. I guess marketing gets us to think that the brighter the light in kelvin, the better it is.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MHR1294 View Post
                      The only thing he isn't quite on, is the recovery time of the eye. This can take way more than 1 minute!
                      It CAN be, You're not wrong.
                      Your Iris however, has a maximum response speed, and the muscles are quite weak (it's why they're slow).
                      You can do some dummy-testing on this, using your bedroom and your phone.
                      Go into options and set your phone to max brightness, and "Cool" colour temperatures.
                      Lay in bed, in the dark for 15 minutes (leave a window open, you'll always have moonlight in the car).
                      Find a spot you can only just see in the dark, focus on it.
                      Turn your phone on, and look at it for, say, 5 seconds (most cars with shitty headlights pass within about at time frame).
                      Now look back at your 'spot', and start counting how long until you can see it again.
                      From such a short exposure, your Rods wont have time to be exposed to Arrestin (which is a protein that binds with another; rhodopsin) to lower your sensitivity. tldr; you'll recover quickly from short exposure.
                      You can feel the inverse of this very easily by going from a pitch black room, to a fully lit one and feeling the eye pain :P

                      Since it's MAINLY the Rods in your eyes that are responsible for night vision, you can learn a fair bit about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_cell
                      without needing to go and do a whole course on optometry.

                      If you're wondering why I'm so 'up on it', it's because I have Keratoconus; and use eyedrops to adjust my sensitivity, including iris exposure and corneal pressures constantly. You learn a LOT about what you're adjusting..... I was also working with a specialist telescope company, to try and develop a polarising lens that ONLY filters blue light, and has near ZERO effect on red. It sort of exists, but nothing that can fit into an eyeglass yet....
                      Also I'm a nerd and since I have an eye condition, I researched the crap out of it.


                      Originally posted by Lompiaras
                      Although i am not sure about the insurance world, as if i run these led headlights which are drl non approved, that means when an accident happens and theres an investigation that these lights were used, technically the vehicle is defective and shouldnt be on the road, meaning that m claim will be rejected.
                      It's possible, yes. And it will depend on the accident how hard they go.
                      I wrote off one of my DC5's (yes I have more than 1) when I had a brand new Pirelli delaminate through the ply! so there was no hole, it just lost air; so the front of the car dove inward on a corner of a mountain, Dropped about 5m before a tree caught me... I was lucky. The car was not.

                      This is a 'hoon mountain', but I don't speed on public roads. The road is 70kmph, and it had just started spitting, so I was doing 55~60kmph.
                      I had an officer from crash investigation show up, and immediately give me 'the business'.
                      "How fast were you going mate?"
                      "Well below the limit officer."
                      "Heh, we'll see about that" *walks up to the skid marks* "Wow, I don't even need to measure, were you even doing 60?"
                      "I doubt it...."
                      "Ok, I'll write you up a police report saying 'unexpected fishtail', and make sure to mention no unsafe driving for your insurance"
                      "Thanks!"

                      In reality, there were quite a few things that might have been questionable, but nothing that could have been the cause of a tire manufacturing fault.
                      If I'd hit someone, or even another driver, there'd be a different story to tell. I don't doubt they'd have gone top to bottom looking at the car.

                      Regardless of insurance though; nothing in any car works quite as well as what it's designed to use; so if you haven't even tried better bulbs in your current housings? It's a cheap thing to try first.

                      As for what bulb; just read one of the current ones, it say, or look at pics. Should also be in your manual.

                      Originally posted by Lompiaras
                      Yes i heard that anything above 5000K is ‘wank factor’ on reddit. I guess marketing gets us to think that the brighter the light in kelvin, the better it is.
                      Kelvin is a measure of light temperature (colour), not brightness.
                      That's like needing to take your jacket off in winter, because you enter a brightly painted room :P

                      Comment

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