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**jmacman12** · 03-04-2011, 10:33 PM

Before posting a new thread in this forum or other various forum here on MCM, regarding what car is better, what car you should buy…etc please do some research yourself on the following websites:

Consumer auto guide:http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/
Fill out the used vehicles tab.

Auto123
http://www.auto123.com/en/car-reviews/used
Fill out the used vehicle tab.

MSN autos
http://new-car-search.autos.ca.msn.c.../selection.spy
Fill out the vehicle description tab.

RedBook Valuation Guide
http://www.redbook.com.au
This is a guide for the average price and specification on most Australian Delivered vehicles.

Carsguide
http://www.carsguide.com.au
Great for researching cars and also a good place to buy.

Remember when asking for somebody’s opinion on a particular car is a subjective response and does not show both sides to a story but rather someone ELSE’S opinion, not your own. Choose a car based on what you think, not others but we’ll give you the tools to make that decision.

However if you do want read people's opinions, you can fish through Upamanyu's thread to find what you need here!

CAR BUYING TIPS:

1) The more stock a car is, the better off it may be. The car will be healthier and the risk factor of it being run hard is lower. In case of future modification you will have the option of keeping the stock parts, which will help you to sell it later but also in case you have troubles with aftermarket parts.

2) The fewer the owners the better. That way no information is lost along the way. Be wary of cars owned by older people because as most are driven too lightly they can gradually build up carbon over time from not being burned off by high temperatures. This will make the car sluggish and require more work. Also it is good to note that newer cars will need to reset the ECU (as simple as taking off the battery for 15min) as the ECU learns from your driving style and it will default to the original driver, causing poor performance.

3) Ask for documentation, it is key. If the owner doesn’t keep a record of service or any other work done to the car, then chances are he’s hiding something or hasn’t taken good care of the car. You don’t honestly know what you’re buying. Imported cars can be hard to find documentation for. If the car has been in the country for a while ask for as much info that they can supply. Use good judgment to avoid headaches later.

4) Mileage is not always a huge factor. If the owner can honestly say that the mileage is all (or majority highway) then high kilometers shouldn’t scare you. It’s healthier for the engine to run on the highway then in the city. However make sure you can verify this.

5) 20,000km a year is average. When looking at a car match the present year to the year that the car was made. Multiply the difference in years by 20,000km, this is a guide to how many kilometers the car should have. Anything under and anything over should be questioned to verify the health of the engine. An example to use good judgment on would be a government or hire cars as they will have higher milage but they are serviced regularly as the fleet companies make sure they are done on time. But this isn't always a smart buy as they are driven really hard due to being company owned, not driver owned.

6) Cosmetics don’t define a good car. When buying privately its a imperative to see that the owner has maintained the car at all required stages of maintenance that way the car is most likely very healthy and nothings wrong. This is a semi repeat of number 3. Just because it looks clean and great doesn’t even remotely dictate that the car is worth buying. This method is often used by brokers as a way to get the automotively incompetent to buy the car. If buying an older car or buying in an area close to the sea or where it snows, take a strong fridge magnet with a rag underneath and run it along the metal parts of the car. If it sticks it then cosmetically it is ok, if it doesn't it could mean its been patched up with bog (after a crash) or it even has or had rust under the paint. Either could be simple to fix or very expensive, use good judgment.

7) Appearance isn't everything, If your going daily don't be dumb, don't overlook saloons (sedan), or 4 door hatch backs. If they are a true daily then after 2-3 months of a coupé you'll be kicking yourself in the arse for not buying a saloon or hatch back for space and convenience.

8) Check the pedals, seat wear and tear and plastic covers in the interior. Check the pedals to see how worn they are, if the grooves are significantly worn out but the car has low kilometres the mileage might not be honest or it may have done a lot of city driving. Verify the usual wear and tear from the seats and interior plastics to back up your statement. Use your logic to see if the wear and tear match the kilometers, if not question!

9) Check the oil, see if it is low, or has a white substance. If its white, stay away. If its low, look for leaking oil, if it leaks oil, you might want to do some research but your safest bet is to stay away also, unless you are automotively trained. Make sure its also not black or thick, this can mean the engine has not been serviced regular.

10) Clean your car and service it once you own it. You don’t want somebody
else's grime in your car once it’s yours. Its also a good way to find any problems as you are inspecting it very closely. Go watch Episode 6 and 16 from season 1 and/or check out milkchickens video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoppLpFRf9A See post underneath for further car care.

11) Start the car and check for smoke from the exhaust and any other abnormal noises. See how long it takes to get the car from Park to Drive in an automatic and see how long it takes to engage the car from neutral to first in manual. If it takes long there might be a tranny problem. Cycle through all the gears to be safe. Go for a drive as well, clunking when changing gears or harsh changes can also be the sign of big issues with the gearbox. If the car is a Manual, make sure the gear changes are smooth and the clutch isn't noisy or slips. Be aware if the car has been "warmed" up before you go to look at it. Dealers and some private sellers can do this if the car has trouble starting or has other problems when cold like noisy belts or hard to engage gears. This is not always the case but try and do your car shopping early in the morning before they have time to start them up.

12) Tires can be a deal breaker in a low budget car! If the car you are looking for does not have any treads left and requires new tires you can expect to pay at least $500 for new tires! For people in colder climates if the car doesn’t have any winter tires and/or needs summer tires your looking at least 1.5k so think about this factor when buying.

13) Reconsider your budget. If you have 3k to spend on a car then consider all options and deduct it from your car budget. Consider registration cost, tires (post 12), insurance cost, cost to clean the car if your renting equipment or don’t have cleaning supplies (post 10) and read the following post underneath for further instructions to service your car when buying, so your budget can be adjusted. That 3k might easily have just gone up by 2k, so price accordingly!

14) Don't under estimate fuel economy; gas is expensive. If your a full time student who works very few hours then dont shy away from a fuel economic car until you have more money or a full license for a different car!

15) If it's too good to be true, it might. If you see a skyline r34 gtst for sale with low kms by a private buyer for 5 grand, does this seem reasonable to you? Always be a skeptic to be safe, which is why you are using the guide. We always neglect reality in order to tailor to our needs and demands first since the news is great! However search around your favorite car buying websites to give yourself your own idea as to how much the car costs. If it doesn't fall in that window then there is something seriously wrong with the car or it could be a phishing scheme. Be sure to report all scams and phishing schemes to your local authorities to save somebody else the trouble!

16) Get the car inspected before you buy it! You can save yourself a lot of money and headaches by doing this first. If you are ready to buy the car, a hundred dollars or so might seem like a lot to get it inspected if you choose not to buy it but that 100 dollars could save you thousands in the long run! Often arrangements with the buyer are the best way to go such as a 50/50 split or have him include it in the price if you buy it. After the inspection get a background check done from REVS using the VIN number to further your car inspection research. This too could save you a few headaches in the future with resale as unmentioned accidents aren't nice to discover 5 years after you bought the car. If you are buying the car be sure to verify the REGO as well as this could re***e the sale of the car 500$ or so.

17) Head over to the front line; go ask a mechanic of the particular manufacturer what they have to say about the car and what to look out for. Who knows the car better then the people who service them?

18) Research has its limit. You can research and know as much as you want about a car, but until you have seen the car in person and have driven it, you cannot make your decision whether you want it or not. The feel of the car is completely different from what you read online and is not something that can be described

Feel free to comment, add feed back, question or add your own input!

**milkchicken** · 03-04-2011, 10:35 PM

Here is my add on Guide to how to look after your new 2nd hand car

Disclaimer (yeah i know but it needs to be put here first)
I and anyone else who posts on this thread have no responsibility for any damage that occurs to your car as a result of this thread. All information provided is only for a reference and if you should have any concerns with this you should talk to a professional. If you do not feel confident in working on your own car then go see a professional.

Ok with all that out of the way, lets get onto the guide. You can use this for your own personal use or you can take it to your mechanic to get the work done. Either way this is what i do to every single one of my new 2nd hand cars that I buy. No matter if they are a local buy or a full import. I treat them all the same. You don't have to do everything in this guide. It's mainly just for reference, so pick and choose what you like

So you just picked up your car. Looks nice and clean and drives good yeah? well you can make it better by taking out a few hours or so of your weekend to make it look and feel somewhat like a new car.

1. Clean your car. Wether you get it from a dealership or form a private seller, it is always a good idea to give the car a very good clean up.

-Start with the exterior of the car, as this mostly takes the longest. Clean the car with a good quality car wash, dry and prepare for paint cleaners and conditioners.
-Clay down the whole paint of the car, why do you need to do this? Well the paint over time holds onto old wax, tree sap and other contaminants in the air. this gives the paint a rough feel and will make it harder to clean. The paint should feel like clean glass, if it doesn't you need to clay it down. The clay bar wont take a layer of paint off like a Cut and polish will, instead it takes the layer of contaminants off. So don't worry it won't damage the paint.
-Next on the list is a Colour Corrector. This isn't necessary if you have a black or white car, but if you have a colour like red or yellow, this will help bring it back to the colour it use to be or very close to it. Follow the directions on the bottle.
- Now time for a Polish. This will help keep the nice colour that you worked soo hard on looking nice.
-A cleaner wax will help lock in the hard work you just did on the car. You need to let these dry, it normally takes about 5-10min.
-Last on the paint work is a Wax, Now i know the cleaner wax is classed as a wax, but if you want your paint to look super shiny and nice, then I would suggest to put a plain wax over the top. It will help lock in all the hard work and also make it very easy to clean.

The paint will need to be looked after like this every 3-4months. You may not have to use the colour correct every time, but the rest of it is what I would suggest.

-Headlights and tail lights. If you want your lights to look all pretty and nice a plastic cleaner will help you achieve this. I use the Meguires Plastix on my headlights and tail lights and it helps make them look very nice. If your lights are corroded on the out side then i would suggest to go for the Turtle wax Headlight resorter like in the MCM video here (video)

Windows. These can be over looked sometimes, but they are super easy to clean. Plus they also make it easier to see out. Go figure

Last is the chrome. If you have a nice exhaust, give it a clean and it will instantly make the whole car look cleaner.

Interior: This is very simple. Get out the vacuum cleaner and give all the seats and floor a good clean out. Also don't forget to clean around the dash area and all the other nooks and crannies in the car. If your seats are very dirty then i would suggest to give them a steam clean like in this MCM video (video) But don't do this on leather

2. So now you have a nice clean car its time for a service. No matter what the dealer or private seller tell me I Always service my cars when I buy them. Why? because then i know when they were last done.

**milkchicken** · 03-04-2011, 10:36 PM

This will all depend on the Km's on the car and wether it is an import or a local delivered car. But here is an over view.

1. Oil and Filter Service. This is something you should do every time you buy a car, and you should also be doing it as part of a normal service schedule. I suggest to use an engine flush first then replace the Engine oil and the Engine oil filter and also put in an engine protect. These may seem like a gimmick but they do help protect your engine. They don't stop it from wearing out but they will help give you better life from your engine. There is a warning with this. If you purchase a car with a Rotary engine DO NOT put any additives in there at all, you will do damage to the apex seals and block the oil feeds. If you have any oil leaks it is best to fix them at this time as well. Replacing a sump gasket is best done with no oil in the engine unless you like getting covered in oil. A rocker cover gasket however can be done with a full engine.

2. Engine Air filter. This needs to be done when dirty. Get the filter out and check it. If it needs replacing this can be the perfect time to change it over for a freer flowing filter like the K&N panel filter. If you choose to put a pod on there make sure it is shielded from any engine bay heat. It is also best to clean the AFM (air flow meter) here, as they do get dirty over time. This will help you get better fuel economy and better performance when clean.

3. Coolant, this will all depend on the age and km's of the car. The rule of thumb for the majority of cars is every 2 years. But please note that some vehicle manufacturers specify every 150,000km and some like Mercedes recommend every 10-15 years. So check your owners hand book before changing this. You should also check the coolant hoses and water pump for leaks and any hoses that may need replacing. It is best to get them done when you have no coolant in them.

4. Brake fluid and Brake pads. Brake fluid should also be changed every 2 years. This is also the best time to replace your brake pads if required. If you need to replace your pads it is best to machine the rotors and or replace them with a new set. This will get rid of brake shudder and also give good breaking feel. Be careful when moving the piston back in the calliper as you could tear the delicate dust seal. If the piston is hard to move, it may be seized in the calliper and require rebuilding. If you have drum brakes make sure the shoes are not worn out and have worn evenly. Also check the Slave cylinders for leaking. All you need to do is carefully pull back the seals and if fluid comes out they need replacing. Machine the drums if you replace the shoes in the rear and re adjust the rear brakes as per the workshop manual.

5. Spark plugs. If your car has platinum plugs in there they don't need to be done until every 100,000km, but i always like to replace them on an import just to be safe. This can be a very quick and simple job or a very long and stressful one. Make sure you have the correct plugs for your car before you start on any work to remove them, as it can be a pain to take everything apart and realise you have the wrong ones. Now is also the perfect time to replace the spark plug leads and coils if needed. If the car runs a bit rough or the leads are worn, replace them now and you won't have to do a lot of hard work to replace them later on.

6. Timing belts and Ancillary belts. Timing belts will all depend on the Km's of the engine. Most manufacturers recommend every 100,000km to 150,000km (check your owners manual or a workshop manual to find the correct milage for your engine). This is not just a rule of thumb but it is recommended to prevent the belt from snapping and causing catastrophic damage to the engine. Most Japanese imports over 100,000km will have a sticker on the Timing belt cover indicating it has been done before. If you don't feel 100% certain that it has been done it is better to have it replaced than to have the motor stop due to a broken timing belt. Spend a few hundred now or a few thousand later. It is also a good idea to replace the Water pump and Oil seals when you replace the timing belt. It saves a lot of time and money to do it now. You may also need to replace idler pulleys if they are worn and noisy. This is a cheap way to make sure the belt will run smoothly and not break if they seize. If your engine has a Timing Chain there is no need to replace it. Check for oil or coolant leaks and keep going. No need to take the cover off to do this.
Ancillary belts need to be done when they are cracking. If one belt is cracked then it is easier to replace the whole lot while your going. Make sure they are at the correct adjustment as too tight can cause damage to the pulleys and too loose can cause squealing and slippage.

7. Power steering fluid. This can be something over looked by many. Your power steering is one of the most important parts of the car. Doing a Power steering flush is very easy to do, and will make sure there is no contaminants that can go into the delicate power steering pump causing noise and damage. Take out the old fluid from the reservoir and replace it with clean fluid, run the engine and turn the steering wheel for a min. Turn off the engine and remove the dirty fluid. You my need to do this a few times until it is clean. Top the fluid up to the cold full mark and take the car for a drive. Recheck that the fluid is at the Hot full mark if not top it up. Make sure you use Power steering fluid unless specified in a Workshop manual. Please not that if your car has Electric assist power steering or No power steering you can go past this step.

8.Gearbox and Differential. This job can be a pain if you not lucky enough to own or have access to a hoist. The drain and filling points are located deep within the body of the car this makes it an unfun job if you only have a set of jack stands or ramps. You will need to drain out all the old oil and replace it with brand new oil. Do not use non LSD oil in a differential with an LSD you will do damage to the differential. Use the specified oil from the owners hand book or a workshop manual. Fill the gearbox and differential on a level surface and fill until the oil runs out of the filler plug. The gearbox oil and differential oil should be done every 40,000km.

9. Battery. Often overlooked this is a very important part of the car. A failing battery can be the biggest annoyances. Now is the perfect time to check it over and replace it if needed. A battery that has filler plugs needs to have the electrolyte level check every 5,000km or so. Take out the plugs and have a look at the plates inside. the water should cover them. if not fill it up to cover the plates with Distilled water. Do not use tap water. If the car is hard to start in the morning, don't risk it replace it asap you don't want to get stuck on the side of the road. You should also check that your alternator is charging as well. it should charge at 14v to check this you should put a multimeter on the battery terminals while the engine is running. if you see less than 14v the alternator may need new brushes or replacement if it is brushless.

**milkchicken** · 03-04-2011, 10:36 PM

10. Intercooler and piping. This only really applies to a Turbo charged engine. The intercooler over time collects oil that gets sprayed from the turbo and the pcv valve. This can cause the car to blow smoke on start up and on boost. Cleaning the intercooler core is very easy but getting to it can sometimes be a big job. Top mount intercoolers are very easy with only a few bolts holding them in place. A front mount or side mount will require you to remove the front bumper to get to it, so its a perfect opportunity to make sure everything is good behind there. To clean the intercooler you will need a bottle of Mentholated Spirits and a bottle of Kerosene add equal quantities to the core and swish it around inside the intercooler. Its best to put a small amount and do it multiple times as the core will hold a bit of oil inside. Pour out the mixture into a bottle or bucket and repeat until the solution is clean. Get out a hose and was out the core onto the lawn, do not wash it down the storm water drain. Leave the intercooler out in the sun to completely dry and refit back up to the car. I would suggest to do this every 12months or so.

11. Fuel Filter. The fuel filter needs to be replaced every 40,000-60,000km. This can be an easy job if it is in the engine bay, but if its in the fuel tank you will need to pull out the rear seats to get to it. Make sure you don't have a full tank of petrol as it will make it harder to take out the filter. It is also a good idea to disconnect the battery at this time.

12. Tyres. Check your tyre condition and the tread condition every service. Tyre pressures is something you should check every month. The normal rule of thumb is small cars: 28-32psi, medium cars 32-34psi, large cars 32-34psi, and 4wd 34-38psi. This is just a guide the correct tyre inflation is on a plate on the B pillar of the car, if not it should be in the owners manual.

13. Wiper rubbers. The wiper rubbers are not only part of roadworthy but they are important in seeing what is ahead of you and in some cases behind you. Wiper rubbers need to be replaced when ever they start to smear on the windscreen. This is a very quick and easy job and won't cost you a mint to do.

14. Suspension. The suspension will need to be checked every service. Check that the bushes are not worn out, this can cause poor handling and noise. Check that the struts are not leaking, if there is oil on the outside they will need to be replaced or rebuilt.

15. Exhaust. We all like a noisy exhaust but if its noisy in the wrong places that can be an issue. Check the exhaust for leaks and for rust. Check that the catalytic convertor isn't rattling, it may be broken down inside if it sounds like it has small stones. If it sounds like it does it needs to be replaced. The O2 sensor should also be checked. If worn out it can cause poor fuel economy and poor performance. Replacement of these can be expensive however so shop around and sometimes the genuine items can actually be cheaper.

**manyu** · 03-04-2011, 11:26 PM

I lold hard. thanks jmac. amazing work by all of you

**Heco94** · 04-04-2011, 04:38 AM

Great work guys, I didn't contribute very much. But thanks for the mention

**jmacman12** · 04-04-2011, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Heco94 View Post

Great work guys, I didn't contribute very much. But thanks for the mention

No worries man, you were very keen originally and did give a lot of solid input and I'm not one to steal credit or forget others

Originally posted by upamanyu View Post

I lold hard. thanks jmac. amazing work by all of you

Thanks for the help too Manyu, but seriously those statements are true

**Heco94** · 04-04-2011, 01:22 PM

I wish I didn't forget after restarting my fb

**Hayden121** · 04-04-2011, 03:29 PM

Heco did you end up getting that Golf? that thing looked sweet as.

**jmacman12** · 04-04-2011, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Hayden121 View Post

Heco did you end up getting that Golf? that thing looked sweet as.

Nope it ended up selling and he wasn't able to jump on the sale in time

He's got a few others he's looking at, including a GTI

**RBV55** · 04-04-2011, 09:04 PM

wow guys excelent thread should help people in the future

**Tone** · 08-04-2011, 02:09 AM

Great work jmac and mc, but I have just one little issue:

Originally posted by milkchicken View Post

6. Timing belts and Ancillary belts. Timing belts will all depend on the Km's of the engine. Most manufacturers recommend every 100,000km to 150,000km.

Very important advice re: timing belts, but I don't know of too many manufacturers that suggest a 150,000km lifespan. TBH, I'd be suggesting 50,000-100,000km would be about right. For instance, Astras are notorious for eating timing belts every 60,000km without fail. Not that there would be too many MCM fans dumb enough to buy an Astra, but you never know ...

**milkchicken** · 08-04-2011, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by Tone View Post

Great work jmac and mc, but I have just one little issue:

Very important advice re: timing belts, but I don't know of too many manufacturers that suggest a 150,000km lifespan. TBH, I'd be suggesting 50,000-100,000km would be about right. For instance, Astras are notorious for eating timing belts every 60,000km without fail. Not that there would be too many MCM fans dumb enough to buy an Astra, but you never know ...

I base my knowledge off Toyota's and other Japanese Makes. There is some Toyota's that get done every 150,000km the Camry use to be done at 150,000km but they changed it as there were a few cars spitting the belts before then. Some cars also don't have a Timing belt, rather they have a chain. The best way to find out when the belt requires replacing is to look it up in a workshop manual or your owners manual or go see the dealership and ask them.. Only reason why i put 100,000km-150,000km is that is what the majority of manufactures suggest But again every car is different. So it was marly a guide

**Tone** · 09-04-2011, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by milkchicken View Post

I base my knowledge off Toyota's and other Japanese Makes. There is some Toyota's that get done every 150,000km the Camry use to be done at 150,000km but they changed it as there were a few cars spitting the belts before then. Some cars also don't have a Timing belt, rather they have a chain. The best way to find out when the belt requires replacing is to look it up in a workshop manual or your owners manual or go see the dealership and ask them.. Only reason why i put 100,000km-150,000km is that is what the majority of manufactures suggest But again every car is different. So it was marly a guide

Well, I've learned something new! I honestly thought that most manufacturers weren't game to go anywhere beyond 100,000km for timing belt changes. That said, unless you're driving something like a Hyundai Excel (which, IIRC, has a non-interference engine ... which is probably the Excel's only redeeming feature), it's probably a good idea to change the belt sooner rather than later.

You do raise an interesting point re: manufacturers getting their estimates wrong. Holden used to recommend 120,000km intervals for the TS Astra belts. After quite a few let go at around 60,000km or so, Holden revised it downwards. That said, if you are unfortunate enough to end up with an Astra, I'd be changing it every 50,000km just to be on the safe side. It's also good advice to suggest people learn whether or not their car's engine has a timing belt or a timing chain. The maintenance requirements are obviously different (i.e. chains can be adjusted to a point and could require replacement eventually but will most likely be the next owner's concern; belts need to be replaced), and the advice re: water pump being changed at the same time as a timing belt, assuming the water pump is driven by the timing belt, is also very wise.

tl;dr: Know if you've got a timing belt that needs replacing, and make sure you replace it in time or else your engine will probably lunch itself - unless it's an Excel.

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