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Electric Supercharger Install + Testing + Q&A

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  • #61
    I've read this whole thread. From what I gather, the cost it would take to develop, produce, and distribute a functional electronic turbo, that worked, would drive the cost so high a purpose built turbo kit would be cheaper. I think if your on a really tight budget, piece your turbo kit together from second hand components. Making sure the important stuff like the turbo is in good shape. You can pick up used turbos from junk yards for a couple hundred bucks, spend a hundred bucks on a rebuild kit, or send it in. Get a manifold that works and a dump pipe. You can turbo just about anything for under 500 bucks. I did it using a turbo from a 5.9 cummins diesel, turbo headers from ebay, ebay FMIC, and got the piping from Autozone. ended up costing me a month making it fit my SBC 85 s10 blazer and 450 or so bucks. Just my two cents.
    08 Impreza 2.5I: STI suspension swap, TurboXS catback, K&N Filter.
    93 Honda Civic LSi, D15B2, Headerback Exhaust, Coilovers, Rear Lower CA, Hybrid Intake, 17" Alloys

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Wild Weasel View Post
      The bypass is internal to the blower. I'm not quite sure what you mean by external vs. internal. It's built-in and vacuum-actuated.
      Ah, okay.. well, they made various version with various availible options.
      Modifying is a lifestyle!
      Originally posted by milkchicken
      Oh man I hate it when the bolts on my car decide to strip, its so awkward.. I'm like dude I've got a partner I can't be seen doing this...

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Scratch View Post
        You can turbo just about anything for under 500 bucks.
        Sure. Easy peasy, right? And turbos are AWESOME. So if we take a poll here... what percentage of people on a car modding forum do you think have added boost to a NA car? There's a LOT of knowledge and effort involved so people just don't do it.

        Now, if we do the same poll to find out how many people have added an aftermarket intake... I'm betting it's going to be an order of magnitude higher, because it's easy to do.

        I'm not here to say everyone should buy an electric turbo. I've spent years BEGGING people NOT to get suckered into buying one. I'm just saying that THIS one works, and is pretty cool. And I'm actually happy that this sort of thing will be a viable option in the future.

        My biggest fear is that all the scammers start using what I'm doing as some sort of vicarious proof that "E-TURBOS WORK, YO!!" so they can sucker a bunch more people in. When all is said and done, I may have to put a bunch of details into my scam-debunking page to now show exactly what to look for to find one that works. It's been a lot easier just saying they're ALL garbage.
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        • #64
          Originally posted by Wild Weasel View Post
          Sure. Easy peasy, right? And turbos are AWESOME. So if we take a poll here... what percentage of people on a car modding forum do you think have added boost to a NA car? There's a LOT of knowledge and effort involved so people just don't do it.

          Now, if we do the same poll to find out how many people have added an aftermarket intake... I'm betting it's going to be an order of magnitude higher, because it's easy to do.

          I'm not here to say everyone should buy an electric turbo. I've spent years BEGGING people NOT to get suckered into buying one. I'm just saying that THIS one works, and is pretty cool. And I'm actually happy that this sort of thing will be a viable option in the future.

          My biggest fear is that all the scammers start using what I'm doing as some sort of vicarious proof that "E-TURBOS WORK, YO!!" so they can sucker a bunch more people in. When all is said and done, I may have to put a bunch of details into my scam-debunking page to now show exactly what to look for to find one that works. It's been a lot easier just saying they're ALL garbage.
          I get what your saying. The point is a usable electronic turbo will cost more than a traditional turbo. Therefore I would pass. The easy way isn't always the best way. Everyone is free to make there own choices and spend their money how they want. BTW I did read your link and I know the E turbo you speak of isn't the cheap ebay one.
          08 Impreza 2.5I: STI suspension swap, TurboXS catback, K&N Filter.
          93 Honda Civic LSi, D15B2, Headerback Exhaust, Coilovers, Rear Lower CA, Hybrid Intake, 17" Alloys

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          • #65
            Well... realistically, what does a turbo kit cost? And I'm not talking about welding your own header and sourcing the turbo from a junkyard. If you want to buy a proper kit for a car, what's the cost?

            I just Googled what it would cost for a Mazda3. First link I found is this:

            $3999: http://tripointengineering.com/infor....php?info_id=1

            When GM made the M45 kit for my car, they wanted SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS for it. Which is insane. Eventually they sold for around $3k to $4k and later, when the market was gone, the leftovers went for around $2k.

            Can someone shed some light for me on what TRD charges for a tC supercharger kit? Not very many OEM's make FI kits, but TRD has been good that way over the years.

            My point is that they aren't cheap by any stretch of the imagination. I remember guys buying kits for less on eBay and stuff, and ending up with pretty much garbage.

            So if this thing is well under $2k... then even when it comes to price, there's probably a good market out there for it.

            I know that YOU wouldn't buy one. And let's be honest... I probably wouldn't either because I WAS willing to drop a few grand on forced induction. But we're a rare breed. The fact is, there's a TON of people getting scammed by all the crap out there because they WANT this sort of thing to work as advertised. Well... I say a TON... I've got no numbers whatsoever to back that up, but I have to imagine it's a lot of those things wouldn't still be on sale, would they?
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            • #66
              So... is anyone here from Toronto and showing up tonight?
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              • #67
                Originally posted by Wild Weasel View Post
                Actually, I would think that for every 14.7 psi, if not for inefficiencies and what not, you'd be closer to doubling hp, not adding half. That's 1 bar over standard pressure, which means you're feeding TWICE as much air into the engine as normal.

                My M45 was designed to add about 5 psi and was rated as adding 50 hp to my engine, which is rated for 150 hp stock.

                Of course, if you actually add that much psi to an engine, the real result is probably to just blow it up. But if you do all the proper mods to handle that much boost, you should theoretically double the power.

                I posted the data on my site, and if anyone is near Toronto and wants to see it, I've arranged for a meet on Wednesday night.
                Yes but inefficiencies are everything.
                It's about usable air flow.
                As we can see up top you have very little usable air flow. It's tapering off hard.

                I think if you dyno your car with the M45 you'll find It closer to 180hp
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                • #68
                  Well... the bottom line is that it makes very noticeable gains. When it kicks in, you VERY MUCH FEEL the power come on. And the numbers show why.

                  So here's my conclusions...

                  I've just done my final round of testing. The small blower is probably the one you want, since it starts off with a bit more kick but shouldn't lean out a regular engine at higher RPM's. But the big one pushed NEARLY THREE POUNDS of boost at redline!! See my site for all the numbers.

                  http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturboTest.aspx

                  I'm sold. Of course, now I've gotta figure out how to rewrite my scam page to ensure people understand the difference between something like this and, so far as I know, EVERYTHING ELSE out there. It was way easier when everything was a scam.

                  I told Rob it would be good to sign up and start posting so he can answer questions about price and availability and more technical questions that I know nothing about. Rather than signing up to forums all over the place though, he said to post up that he's still working on his website but you can contact him by sending a PM or commenting on his Robftss YouTube account.

                  So that's about it for now!! I've got the car on the road until Saturday so hopefully someone can see it in person. I'm going to put more effort into trying to run down the battery over the next couple days... but as far as "DOES IT BOOST??" goes... well... it sure as hell does!
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                  • #69
                    The graph doesn't lie...



                    Now I really want to see one.

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                    • #70
                      That is awesome!! Dude, you're my new best friend.

                      I've got 2 days left for someone to come see it. I REALLY hope someone pipes up. If anyone knows of a member here from the Toronto area that may just not be checking this Tech Talk section, please send them over and tell them to come see it. A friend of mine drove it today. He's a skeptic, but when it kicked in, he was all smiles.
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                      • #71
                        I've only skimmed this thread, but are you only disabling the M45 by leaving the bypass open or have you removed the belt from the supercharger as well? I only ask because I wouldn't be suprised if the M45 can still build boost with the bypass open (Like turbos with small internal waste gates just keep boosting) as it is really only designed to equalise the pressure on both sides of the supercharger to prevent it from "churning" at idle.

                        Swap the e-charger over to an NA car and see if you can replicate the results
                        TrackDub - 89' AW11 4AGE 20V (83.5RWKW) | SkidDub - 88' AW11 1MZFE V6 | SlushDub - 89' AW11 4AGZE Auto T-Top
                        www.midrear.net - My AW11 build/blog/rant/motorsport website

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                        • #72
                          Dyno dyno dyno dyno
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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by mikey_something View Post
                            Dyno dyno dyno dyno
                            Seconded.

                            But dyno n/a car, fir electric charger, re-dyno.

                            Just to get your modified system.out of the equation. People may, myself included, consider SOME of the data skewed by a FI ready/compliant system.

                            Sent utilising my high speed carrier pidgeon
                            Last edited by Rumbuck; 10-05-2013, 10:36 PM.
                            -Christopher Scott

                            "Rumbuck"

                            National President
                            NT State President
                            Darwin and Surrounding Areas Chapter President


                            Bullets in the Gun Ute Club

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by knightrous View Post
                              I've only skimmed this thread, but are you only disabling the M45 by leaving the bypass open or have you removed the belt from the supercharger as well? I only ask because I wouldn't be suprised if the M45 can still build boost with the bypass open (Like turbos with small internal waste gates just keep boosting) as it is really only designed to equalise the pressure on both sides of the supercharger to prevent it from "churning" at idle.

                              Swap the e-charger over to an NA car and see if you can replicate the results
                              I've done the best I could to prove that the bypass is working and that the M45 isn't making the boost we're seeing. Especially with those last numbers with the bigger pulley on it. If I get a chance, I might see if I can't fit a stock belt on there, but there's an additional idler pulley added with the M45 that's in the way of the stock belt route, and I don't really want to do a bunch of trial an error to find a belt that will fit.

                              I've got a friend with an RSX Type-S that we'll probably put this thing on in the future to get some new numbers, but I don't have a timeline for that.

                              Originally posted by Rumbuck View Post
                              Seconded.

                              But dyno n/a car, fir electric charger, re-dyno.

                              Just to get your modified system.out of the equation. People may, myself included, consider SOME of the data skewed by a FI ready/compliant system.

                              Sent utilising my high speed carrier pidgeon
                              Rob has dyno videos posted on YouTube. From all my conversations with him over the past month or so, I've got faith that he's a straight-up and honest guy. He's answered every question I've thrown at him and never once did I feel like he was keeping anything under wraps or trying to fudge the truth. With that in mind, I hope my testing will lend credibility to what he's doing so when you go and look at his dyno results, you'll know it's not a made up load of crap. People are right to be skeptical about numbers from the guy that will be making and selling a thing, but my car basically behaved exactly how he told me it would all the way through this process so I'm quite happy to say that I don't doubt anything about the info he's posted.

                              The only big unanswered question that I have in regard to all this is about how different engines will respond to boost. I've shown that this thing creates boost, but I can't even begin to suggest that any particular engine will take advantage of it or not have issues because of it. As Rob moves from engineering this stuff to actually selling it, I imagine he'll be doing tests on all sorts of different cars before making it available for them, but that's all out of my hands.
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                              • #75
                                I still think that unless the supercharger is fully disabled (no belt) it's a flawed test.
                                If I tie my waste gates open I can still produce 14psi at redline.

                                And I don't pretend to understand supercharges because I'm not familiar with them, but generally tying open a "bypass" is basically creating a GIANT boost leak which will cause the engine to run like a crooked dog with 3 legs.

                                Disabling it properly may even net you BETTER results. But we don't know yet. I'm willing to stay 10% open minded until you do so ;P
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