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Electric Supercharger Install + Testing + Q&A

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  • Whoops,

    All results are on my website. www.phantomsuperchargers.com

    Rob.

    Comment


    • Sorry I missed the menu on first look.

      SPECIFICATIONS:

      Max airflow: ~400 CFM

      Supported engine power: up to 250 HP

      Typical base engine HP: 100-240

      Typical peak torque gain: 30-40%

      Pressure range: up to 1.3 Bar


      Couple questions. Typical base engine HP, is 240 a number where you recognize this device as a restriction rather than a gain above this number? On the dyno it already seemed to be running out of puff in the high rpm at 170hp or so?

      Also (and this is just nit picky), but I find that pressure range to be a bit misleading. The average consumer might see that and think they can get up to 19psi, but in reality they can only get 4.5. You've listed that as referenced to 0 correct? Not referenced to atmosphere?

      What sort of price point is on these? I couldn't find it. Is it really in the budget bolt on mods region? Is the power/$$ good?
      sigpic

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      • Good eye. 1.3PR not BAR, I wish!!

        240 is engine HP, Dyno is Whp. The GM v6 is rated 200 hp and 260 ftlbs. The Vw is rated @ 115hp and 122 ftlbs.

        As far as value. Similar to a properly set up NOS system, and 1/2 to a 1/3 of a similar low pressure SC/turbo.

        Thanks! Rob

        Comment


        • And yes, zero psi @ ~250 HP. Even with this though, it will make boost and plenty of torque @ low and midrange. Kinda like a torque boost. But hey, most Centrifugal superchargers make zero boost till mid rpm's, but the high rpm rush does feel great.

          Rob.

          Comment


          • Thanks for joining the forum Rob, I've got a few questions to ask (if Mikey doesnt ask them before me). But that'll have to wait until I get home from work.

            I miiiight just merge this thread into the one Wild Weasel origionally created, for the sake of anyone who doesn't understand what's going on.

            Comment


            • I've got one last one and then it's all yours Jenga :P

              What's the limit rob? What is holding you back now? Is the electric motor the restriction? I assume just throwing a bigger compressor wheel on doesn't help.

              Battery cycle life? Is it good for 1000 bursts? 10000? Etc.
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              • Interesting question about the battery cycle life. I can't say anything at all to that. Even if I could do a long-term test, I haven't a clue how I'd measure it. I guess that's what test benches are for.

                I think I can answer the question about the power limit, but I'll need Rob to confirm once he reads this. I believe the limit is the amount of current available from the 24V battery pack. When the bigger blower showed up at my place, my first thought was "OOOOH! Bigger = MORE POWA!!!" but in reality, it was more a matter of moving the efficiency around. The battery can only produce so much power for running it, so the different sized compressors just changed where that power was best used. The end result was a bit less boost on the lower RPM range but more in the higher range, which allowed it to keep up with my supercharger up at redline. I'm betting that with a 36V or higher battery pack, he could feed air to a higher hp engine.
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                • The limit is really many things, the best way I can describe it is that all things need to be balanced. This is typical of any product and includes cost, packaging (size), availability, reliability, and of course its application. The present set up is cost effective and compact to fit in most cars that are under 250HP and provide safe but very effective non parasitic boost performance gains for street driving. I know that sounds 'salesy' but this is the region where it naturally outperforms everything else. Now as far as the limits to boost and flow, anything is possible, but the solution to the weakness may be expensive. Right now the best way to get 'more' and stay balanced is to sequential these units and run larger 33Ahr Pb batteries. My video on you tube 'Robftss' shows this set up on a stand, I have not tried this on a car.

                  A bigger wheel and housing would shift the flow higher, but packaging and spool time would suffer, but its not out of the question

                  The 18Ahr batteries are very robust, under $100 Cdn for two, and are used within specs. Most importantly they are maintained with the integrated charger so they should last as long as a starter battery. I have 1 arms length customer who has 9 months logged.

                  Hey, Wild Weasel, feel like DOUBLE compounding the M45? check the torque on the head bolts first

                  Rob.

                  Comment


                  • LOL. When I first saw 10 psi, I was already concerned about whether the engine would hold up. That was my initial fun run just to test whether everything was installed properly, and I sure as hell wasn't expecting it.

                    My utter lack of caution throughout the whole testing process was a bit comical, but I promise I'm not TRYING to blow up the engine.
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                    • Do you balance the rotating assembly? Or have someone who does that for you? One of the things I'm curious about is bearing life...

                      Given what I've seen so far, I'd be very interested in getting my hands on one.
                      Last edited by Jenga; 23-05-2013, 12:12 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Component balanced, rotor and compressor wheel. In early versions the wheel was modified by me and locally balanced. Presently the comp wheels and motor are custom manufactured, from source, to my specifications. Bearing life is a good term, it is finite, like all rotating things. This application enters the realm of 'high speed machine' requirements and there are many things to consider beyond a balanced mass. Bearing & lubrication selection are critical, but the proper assembly strategy including thermal, runout, stiffness, critical speed, positioning, pre-load blah blah variances and lots of real world testing make it reliable. Well it last forever? no, but bearing wear rebuilds are common practice in this environment. I'm confident with all my hours of empirical testing, so ya want one? to test? In Canada we are SI as well so what's the engine's kW? Do you need a RHD version?

                        Rob

                        Comment


                        • I guess more what I mean was: is the bearing life comparable to a belt-driven supercharger. I'm not a mechanical engineer, so I guess I can't say much on what you've just said.

                          I'm definitely be interested in testing one, I'd most likely look at plugging it into my Cuore since it's already set up with a tunable ECU. Being as big a sceptic as Wild Weasel is about electric superchargers, I'm very curious to try one if you'd let me.

                          I'll send you a PM a bit later.
                          Last edited by Jenga; 24-05-2013, 12:42 PM.

                          Comment


                          • What's the cost on one of these? Even if it does provide boost I'm skeptical that it would be cost efficient.

                            Comment


                            • See post #109 regarding comparable value. It would be pointless to make these if there is no real cost efficiency, in fact, funny enough, it is the point. Ultimately it is a real power adder and in the case of the VW 2.0L, on the dyno, with stock vs. Phantom ten minutes apart provides a true delta of the gains. See website. Hey, if anyone out there has a VW ABA 2.0 8V engine, my kit installs less than 2 hrs. Results will not vary.

                              Rob.

                              Comment


                              • Conversation seems to have died. Jenga? Did you PM Rob? Is there something going on?

                                Hey... has anyone got a line on how to get in touch with the big boys here, Marty and Moog? It would actually help MY site as well as Rob if they'd try one of these things out. It bothers me a little that people are still sceptical about what I was able to do. I'm going to revamp my pages over the next few weeks to get into some details on what makes this kit different from the scams out there and will keep fighting the good fight. I'd hate for people to start doubting the info on my site though, even in just a small way. It takes a long time to earn trust on the intertubes. If I could link to a video of Marty and Moog showing this thing working, I think my pages would be rock solid.

                                If there's one thing I've learned on my short time in these forums, it's that it's a decent bunch of people. I half expected to get flamed off the board on my first day, but that didn't happen. With that in mind, I'd expect that reputation spans to other forums as well and would lend a lot of credibility to what Rob's doing, and, hanging onto his coattails, to my new testing page.

                                Any suggestions anyone? Jenga, as a moderator, are you in contact with them?
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