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Myths and Facts. Refrence: Please Read before giving information.

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  • Myths and Facts. Refrence: Please Read before giving information.

    I do not really talk much about my personal life but I think it is time to give some background before I make what I believe to be a very very important thread. I am an English teacher. I am not the best but I am far from the worst. That is a moot point. What is the point is the fact that I have studied from age 8 and keep studying about cars and the science behind them. I know SCCA NHRA and international league drivers as well as a hand full of engineers who are at my disposal. Cars are my absolute passion. Squeezing every last bit of reliable H.P. out of them is my dream from the smallest 2 stroke to the biggest Jet engine I can get my hands on. I always want to improve it.

    This is more of a guide on manners but it pertains on how to post in this sub forum and how to talk to people asking questions about cars anywhere in general. Rules to live by.

    EDITED: Torque spec was too high!!!
    1. Never answer a question with only one source of information as an answer to something scientific. i.e. : How much torque should I apply to my alloy wheels.... That is a DANGEROUS question. This person has not said what they drive nor the application.

    My answer: What do you drive bud? Oh I drive an Integra with 17's . Answer: Well I would say that 100ft.lbs is a safe general torque on a standard rim.

    Where I got my answer: 13 years of experience and reading. The general safe torque for a passenger car is almost always 100ft.lb or a grey torque stick only going over for heavier wheels and never going under unless its a standard steel rim. Most manufacturers run within 8ftlb of this answer.

    As we see by my edit I made a mistake even after years of experience someone like Martin can give me a quick rib and oh so quickly a wrong will be righted. Also always consult a chart or manual if your memory is foggy!

    2. Never believe just one answer or piece of experience. Example: One time I was driving down the road when I lost all of my coolant pressure but I was able to limp it to a gas station. While I was there I was able do diagnose a steel pipe that had rotted out. In the gas station I was able to get a grill brush some coolant a piece of rad hose that was too small some JB weld and some hose clamps. I also had a bullet casing from a 444 magnum in the trunk. Between all of this I was able to make a patch that when I forgot about it lasted me two years until I replaced the pipe.
    This does not mean JB weld is a good patch nor does it mean that doing the same thing will get you home. It is just an experience and someone can try it. However #3.... #3.... The reason for this post.

    3. Just because Doc.Mercurys quicksilver drops make you deficate does not mean that they are a great way to loose weight. This is about branding, brands do not mean a thing. People say Chinese products are bad because of the rash of copies and low quality goods that have come out of china. This does not mean that every product is inferior. Just because a Ford was made in Detroit does not mean it is a quality automobile. This is the same for Honda, Subaru and many other manufacturers. Engineers screw up all the time. If you are going to get a product for your car always look for private research on the matter and NEVER trust the factory. ( I have recently been mocked on another forum for not using a product with inferior metal... an alloy Turbo Yoda here has said isn't the best... Who do I believe an advertiser or a guy who specialises in the part I need? Who would you trust?) ( The public usually picks the salesman.)

    4. There are some sensitive areas in the car world that are THEORY. Theory as far as science is concerned is when scientific method cant be readily applied in a cut and dry fashion. These areas are intake manifold design theory, Exhaust pressure wave theory and Electrical theory. Theory is not to be confused with blunder busting or guessing. Usually there is a lot of engineering and science paired with prior knowledge. These topics are hard to answer because the variables change with application throttle valve placement or lack of , fuel used and environment. A classic wrong is saying you need back-pressure. But also wrong is saying you don't. Wait WTF???? Isn't that a contradiction. The answer is a very scientific process. But that does not mean that we can't hand out a generalization. An NA 5.0L V8 can use up to 1 and 1/2 inch pipe at the header and then run up to 2 and 3/4 pipe from each side before Negative effects are produced form velocity losses in an over sized pipe. While the answer sounds like science IT ISN'T. It is just a general guide via rule of thumb.

    5. If you want to press something as a FACT you must provide the maths. If you can't provide the maths then it is just opinion. IMHO is a great thing to put before answering. Sure I am guilty of giving opinion instead of fact my self but be were of the fact that if you don't know what you are talking about you can do a lot more harm than good.



    This is open to modification by ALL MODERATORS. Suggestions may be made in this thread. Anything I have gotten wrong besides my atrocious spelling will be corrected as soon as noticed or mentioned. Have fun. and keep your wrenches turning.

    Contributers: MartinObviously.
    Last edited by Robert; 14-05-2018, 02:13 PM. Reason: EDIT: Misinformation was redacted and replaced by more accurate info.
    Permanent rev limiter = the crank popping out to say ELLO!!!!

  • #2
    I never torque the wheels on my road car, I only ever tighten the bolts by hand. I do, however, check them regularly. Bonus of owning such a light car. I would never recommend anyone do the same as me though.

    120ft.lb is unusually tight, the torque for my car (Peugeot 106) is 80ft.lbs or 110Nm. A Bugatti Veyron wheel bolt is torqued to exactly 88ft.lb! (120Nm)

    So there you have it, the difference in wheel nut torque from a 60hp car to a 1000hp car is only 8ft.lb hahah!

    I wouldn't generalise it, what I'd advise is always this: If you don't know what you're doing, get someone else to do it! :P The figures should be in your handbook anyway or come with your new wheels.

    I stripped my car out so much it now has 49/49 weight distribution.

    Project Diesel Tune:

    https://forums.mightycarmods.com/for...ct-diesel-tune

    My new Daily HA36S Alto Works

    Martin's Kei to success

    https://forums.mightycarmods.com/for...uki-alto-works

    Comment


    • #3
      That is because I made a mistake!!!! I am EDITING NOW!!! 120 no no no! 100 FTLBS for most alu alloys but consulting a JWL or O.Z. ect for better information. See what getting old and crabby does!!!

      I wanted to ask if that was a steel wheel martin?

      What I was told but this was a long time ago by an older person who may have heard it from someone, was steel wheels don't give like aluminum ones do so they dont need to be as tight or you risk damage. Aluminum wheels give more and need to be tighter or they will loosen up... I had a semi wheel come loose on me but I think that was my buddy forgetting to tighten up the bolts in the pouring rain.
      Last edited by Robert; 14-05-2018, 02:17 PM.
      Permanent rev limiter = the crank popping out to say ELLO!!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        That figure was for both alloy and steel wheels. On a Peugeot 106 the wheel bolts for an alloy wheel are flat seated. Steel wheel bolts have a 60 degree taper this will have an effect on the clamping force by the bolts

        An alloy wheel doesn't deform much when the bolts are tightened, so heat cycling can cause the bolts to loosen off. Steel wheels tend to have a tapered pressing so the whole wheel face acts like a giant spring washer - which stops the bolts from loosening. At least that's my understanding of it.

        It used to be that alloy wheels contained a lot of aluminium, but that's incorrect these days as alloy wheels can be made of many different metals in varying blends.
        I stripped my car out so much it now has 49/49 weight distribution.

        Project Diesel Tune:

        https://forums.mightycarmods.com/for...ct-diesel-tune

        My new Daily HA36S Alto Works

        Martin's Kei to success

        https://forums.mightycarmods.com/for...uki-alto-works

        Comment


        • #5
          I knew as I was typing I could feel the monkey in my head tapping and saying : Robert you big dummy! Steel is springy.. Spring steel... Aluminum is not at all. It just breaks. Marting you again are 100% correct. Also my cars are all from the past so yea aluminum mag mostly with bits of other stuff but it for sure isn't true these days. I saw acrylic wheels not that Id trust em. I know about the loading but I didnt know that Peugot did flat faced stuff. Ill have to rip a wheel off my friends car! Again martin thank you for your time!!
          Permanent rev limiter = the crank popping out to say ELLO!!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            That's quite alright, we're all learners! Modern alloys are so heavy too, my Jaguar alloys (41 years old) are very light in comparison to my Peugeot alloys the same size.

            I'm no stranger to cars of the past. I have '69 E Type, '77 XJ-S, '80 MG Midget, '80 Ford Cortina Kit car. My Daily runner is a 22 year old Peugeot!

            Not sure if i'd trust acrylic wheels... I guess they must have some flex in them though.
            I stripped my car out so much it now has 49/49 weight distribution.

            Project Diesel Tune:

            https://forums.mightycarmods.com/for...ct-diesel-tune

            My new Daily HA36S Alto Works

            Martin's Kei to success

            https://forums.mightycarmods.com/for...uki-alto-works

            Comment

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